Rob:  So Mimi, how are we doing when it comes to getting females interested in technology, mathematics, and science?
Mimi Lufkin:  Well, it’s an interesting phenomenon, because we’ve been working on this issue for many, many years.  And basically what we’ve seen is that, we’re sort of in a static place.   In some sectors of the STEM fields, especially in health related areas, the caring occupations, biology, those science fields, we’ve seen a significant increase in females in those areas.  But, in other areas such as engineering, more technology side, information technology there’s been some increase, but actually in the field of engineering we’ve seen a decline in women’s participation over the last, about, five years.  And you know, it’s an issue that sort of slipped, I think, off of the radar screen and is now coming back central to our global competitiveness, and workforce development issues, economic development issues, and I think we’re going to see a lot more going on in this field.
Rob:  And I want to ask you about that, Rick.  Do we hurt ourselves, competitively, by not having females in the game?
Rick Larkey:  Well, absolutely.  I mean, one of the biggest concerns that we have especially with people, like myself, are going to be retiring in the next 10 years is, how do we replace those folks?  And if we can’t do that locally, domestically here, we’re going to have to import the labor from outside.  And we’d much rather try to give our young women the opportunity to really fill these positions, because they’re so critical and vital to our economic development of the future, especially in the areas of the environment and global warming and power and energy, these are real critical needs that we have.
Rob:  So, Mimi, how do we get there?
Lufkin:  Well, that’s an excellent question.  And one of the things we’re doing in this project is trying to really focus on the issue of teacher preparation and professional development.  There are many, sort of, factors that I think influence a girl’s decision to go into this arena.  Their parents, educating parents is a really important component.  And certainly having stronger media role models where they see every day, for example, when all of the television programs came out, CSI, the crime scene investigation program, and one of the lead in that program was a woman, we saw a huge increase in forensic science programs and girls’ interest in that.  So the media can play a tremendous, media like you, can play a tremendous role in providing role models for girls that it’s okay to get involved in these areas.  And then mentors and role models, people who are already in the field who represent women or under-represented groups, having them work with young people is really important.  The work that we’re doing in this particular project, the STEM Equity Pipeline, is focused primarily on giving tools to teachers.  Because one of the things we know is that when we engage girls in science, technology, engineering and math in a hands-on way, in informal education situations, like weekend programs you may hear about in your community, Girl Scouts does a lot of this kind of work, after school types of programs, it’s really important that they come back to their formal education community, their math teacher, their science teacher, their technology teacher, and that they continue to be supported in their regular school environment.  And we know that again, you know, this whole issue of the aging workforce, that’s an issue also in education, that we have teachers who really need to get a handle on how do they encourage girls in the classroom when they’ve sort of gotten that instilled in them from outside of the school setting.  How do we keep that moving forward?  And so that’s what we’re really looking at is giving teachers tools for dealing with cooperative learning environments, how to encourage girls to participate more, getting them involved in project and hands-on learning.  What does research tell us about the strategies that work?  And so we’re working with Oklahoma, and specifically in this state, in the CareerTech system to try to do training with teachers to help them do that.
Rob:  Are there still prejudices that you find when you visit with teachers, about what females can do, or should do?
Larkey:  Well, yes.  The biggest problem though is most people are under-aware that they are prejudiced.  I mean, most people care and are well intentioned, but don’t necessarily realize the damage that they might be doing inadvertently.  We just heard a story earlier today, for example, about how there was an automotive teacher who paired a guy with this female student and had the guy make sure that all the nuts on the wheels were tightened tight enough because he was concerned that she wasn’t strong enough to tighten the nuts.  It was a well intentioned gesture, but it’s really the kind of thing we really try to discourage and make people aware that, you know, let girls do it for themselves; they’re perfectly capable of doing those kinds of things.
Lufkin:  I think Rick brings up a really good point, and that is the issue that we’re not talking about overt discrimination.  No one is saying, no, you can’t do this.  It’s very subtle, and most of us don’t understand our own implicit biases; in other words, the messages that we send out there.  Again, another story we heard today that’s similar to this is that one of the counselors had taken a girl who was interested in a collision program, took her down to the program, and the teacher said to her, are you sure you want to do this?  You really sure you want to do this?  You know it gets really hot in here, and really dirty in here.  And as they left, and the guidance counselor thought well the teacher’s really concerned about making sure the girl’s making the right choice, and as they left the girl said, boy, it sounds like he really doesn’t want me there.  The message was very clear to her, and that’s the way she interpreted it.  But the teacher probably thought he was doing the right thing, when the reality really is, if the guidance counselor had brought a boy down to the classroom, would he have been saying the same things?  You know, do you really want to do this?  Do you really want to do this?  It’s hot in here; it gets dirty in here.  I doubt he ever would have said any of those things to him.  So, and that message just, as when I say it now to you, you’re probably going wow, yeah, that’s pretty clear.  But the teacher I’m sure had no idea that the message he gave was, you can come, and you shouldn’t be here.  That happens every day.
Rob:  Rick where would you like us to be in another generation?
Larkey:  Well, ideally, women would be equally represented with men in these occupations, because we really don’t feel that there’s any innate problems with women achieving this.  So, ideally, you know, it would be parity, 50-50 split on these things.  As Mimi said, we’ve been working for several years on this issue, and we haven’t had these dramatic breakthroughs, so we have a lot of learning to do in terms of how to really achieve what I’m talking about.
Lufkikn:  And I agree with Rick.  I think that, you know, there are no barriers that should be set up for anyone to make a choice about any of their careers.  And there are lots of options for everyone.  And, I think what we’re really looking for is for girls who have a propensity to have an interest in making the world a better place, and changing the environment, and solving problems that the STEM fields offer them.  And you know, you always think about the solution to the great problem could be in the mind of a girl, and if that girl isn’t encouraged to become a scientist, we’ll lose it.  So, you know, I think it’s a travesty if we don’t, and it’s true in all kinds of career fields, it’s not just STEM alone.  But, I think for our, you know, for the United States place in the global economy, and for economic development in an economy that we’re having difficulty with as it is, and all the problems we need to solve tend to be in the technological and scientific arenas, we need to engage everybody in that.